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Why I Choose Macintosh Over Windows |
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 A lot of people ask me why I choose Macintosh over Windows. I have many reasons, but I have a story from this afternoon that just about sums it all up. Around 1 in the afternoon today I wanted to get on my parents XP machine so I could download a program (that will remain nameless) that can only be run on windows. I could have installed VPC on my Mac, and did it, but I figured just using my parents machine would be simpler. Looking back, I should have installed VPC, installed windows, and then installed the program, it would have taken less time.
I didn't know the website for the program I wanted to install, so after logging in, getting about a hundred different missing dll messages, and the same yellow talk bubble about twenty or thirty times, I finally got to where I could open IE. I double clicked. Waited.... Still Waiting... There's no indication that it is opening, so I will double click again... Waiting... Still waiting... Finally it comes up, start typing in www.google.com, and another one comes up. Great, thanks. Close that one, start typing in the other window, and then a pop up window comes up, close that, another pop up. about 30 more pop ups come up. I am on my own home page, and I know for a fact there are no pop ups on that page. So finally I get back to my window, get www.google.com typed in and hit enter. Google doesn't come up, I get another page, some advertising page wanting me to use their page.
Great, now I have to deal with adware/spyware/viruses. This computer I am on is a fairly recent computer. My Dad got it from the company he works for, they gave them out to all employees, and it's running a lot slower than it used to. It's not used often, (my family also prefers Macs) but when it is, it's used for everyday stuff, games, web, e-mail nothing big. It hasn't even been hooked to the network for a couple weeks now, ever since they got their eMac, and set it up in the same room. No one else remembers having this problem, but it has to be at least 2 weeks old, probably more.
My parents don't have anti-virus software on the PC, they figure they have never needed it on any of their Macs, and so they aren't going to spend $50 or more just to get AV software on their PC, a computer that will rarely be used. So I started with Adaware. Downloaded that, ran it, it found something like 156 objects. Removed ALL of them. Tried again, same problem. I figured it may need to be restarted. I click start, and another damn yellow talk bubble is informing me I have new programs installed (of course I already know that, I JUST INSTALLED THE !@#$ING PROGRAM!), and, of course in true windows style, it is right on top of the "Turn Off Computer" button. I have to click on the talk bubble, and that opens all applications, so I have to close that, well, I clicked outside the start menu, so that closed the entire menu, so now I have to click start again, and click turn off computer.
OK, so I wait for it to restart, and I get annoyed again that I can't use the arrow keys to select my name to log back in, I have to use the mouse, then the keyboard to type in my password. Close the missing dll messages, close the talk bubbles, open IE, close a bunch of pop-up windows (Realizing how much I take the "block pop windows" option in safari for granted), and try www.google.com. Still the same page. I try pinging google on the PC, and then on the eMac, the IP's are different. Next step, delete all cookies, temp files, reset everything in internet exploere, still nothing. Ran Adaware again, and found another 23 objects. Removed all of those, and then headed to housecall.antivirus.com to do a virus scan.
Housecall did a scan and found 5 different viruses, but none of them could be removed. One of the viruses it found installs a program called winshow, and it causes the pop ups, and url hijacking. I try removing it from add/remove programs, but of course it doesn't work, I click "change/remove and it just flashes, never initiates the uninstall program. I check the folder that winshow resides in and there IS no uninstall program... Great. On the eMac I look up manual removals through google, and spent the next hour deleting files, unregistering Dll's, and removing about 500 registry files similar to this:
"HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \ SOFTWARE \ Microsoft \ Windows \ CurrentVersion \ Explorer \ Browser Helper Objects \ {6CC1C918-AE8B-4373-A5B4-28BA1851E39A}"
Oh how fun. After all that, I go to restart, and I have the new program installed bubble again. After clicking several different places, I finally get to the "turn off the computer" button, and restart.
Fight with the missing dlls, and talk bubbles, open IE, close all the pop ups, try google. Still the wrong page. AND I am still getting the pop ups. I try spykiller, a "free" program similar to adaware, as it removes spyware, and adaware from your computer. This thing runs, and takes about a half hour, It finds something like 83 objects, and when I click remove, it says I have to upgrade to the pay version to remove files. The free version only shows you the files, you have to remove them. I try adaware, it finds nothing. I try housecall again, and it still finds two viruses, but still can't delete the viruses.
I restart, and go through all the same problems I had restarting from before again. And google STILL doesn't work. So I do a nslookup on both the eMac, and the Windows machine. They are both using the same DNS servers, and the IP is the same when I check through nslookup, but when I ping the IP is different on the windows machine. And if I go to the IP of google on the windows machine, it does bring google up. I started to think what could possibly cause that, then it hits me, the hosts file. None of the removal instructions for any of the viruses mentioned anything about the hosts file, but it could cause this issue.
So I follow the path to "c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts" open it in text edit, and there are about 60 different domains pointing to this bad IP, including google. I clear that list, close it, restart (having the same troubles I had from before) and finally google works.
Almost 3 hours was spent to get that to work. When I finally did get that software, it didn't do what I hoped. I spent 4 hours working on that XP machine, only to get no farther than I was when I started. Plus I never actually got the pop up windows to go away, and who knows if the hosts file will just be corrupted again.
My Mac has never had any of these problems since I started using Macs over 13 years ago. Viruses just don't effect Macs. A lot of people think it is because there aren't very many Macs, and that is why no one writes viruses for them. That has some truth to it, but it isn't the whole story. Mac OS X by default has much higher security than windows XP. If some one was to write a virus for the Mac, among other problems it would have, it would have to ask you to type in your password to authorize the installation of that program. Then you have to think about how all the files that effect how the computer runs are owned by root, and need to be ran as root to change. That means they would need the password for an admin account, and your account. So to do something like what caused the problems on my parents XP machine on my Mac, you would have to authorize the program to install, then authorize it again to change the file. On the XP machine, simply going to a malicious website, or even just connecting to the internet in MS Blaster's case, is all you have to do to get a virus.
That's one of many reasons I choose Macintosh over Windows. And do you want to know what the real kick-in-the-pants of this whole story is?
My Aunt is having the exact same problems with her Windows XP machine, I have to go over there tonight and do it all over again on her Windows XP machine... Fun. |
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November 24 2003, 5:31 PM EDT, by
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Comments:
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| PantherPPC |
11/24/03, 6:20 PM EDT |
Is Windows a virus itself? No. Here's what viruses do:
They replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that.
Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as they do so - okay, Windows does that.
Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay, Windows does that too.
Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Windows does that, too.
Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Windows, too.
Until now it seems Windows is a virus but there are fundamental differences:Viruses are well supported by their authors, are running on most systems, their program code is fast, compact and efficient and they tend to become more sophisticated as they mature.
So Windows is not a virus.
It's a bug.
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| beemerit |
11/25/03, 12:35 AM EDT |
Yeah I do tech support for a DSL company. And we can support viruses people always say. I just go the virus when i got connected with dsl. I never got this with a dail up. Today I got so mad i transfered a guy to cancelations and told him to go back to dail. or better yet AOL becuase you cant get virus with AOL. And it is so hard to remove the WINDOWS software. If you dont like safari you put in the trash and get another browser. If you hate IE you cant unistall it. Because microsoft thinks its such a great product they what to make sure everybody has it.
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| Pedro Vera |
11/25/03, 9:19 AM EDT |
I also take the Mac for granted. I switched about 16 months ago, and for the first year I used Virtual PC 6 with both Windows 2000 and Windows XP Pro. Four months ago I said to hell with this and deleted VPC 6. I write ASP, which means I have to manage windows servers and I need to run the client tools for SQL Server. I thought it was better to do this from VPC but I have realized that using the remote desktop client works much better. Goodbye VPC.
The Adware problem is maddening, but what also drives me crazy is how hard is it to get PC hardware to play along. You can build a PC from scratch and buy the best motherboard you can afford, a retail CPU, good memory, a retail card and still come up with a very unstable system. Funny thing is my wife’s Dell Celeron 600 MHZ with XP Pro runs perfectly (albeit a bit slow). Why? Because when Dell puts out a box for sale, they have spent a lot of money testing combinations. They can afford to test 20 different hard drive, motherboard and graphic card combos and come out with the most stable version.
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| Pope Zaphod |
11/25/03, 11:14 AM EDT |
Save yourself the headache and either buy or "find" a copy of Norton AntiVirus.
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| Kevin |
11/25/03, 11:16 AM EDT |
I'm with you, bro. I am the IT manager at a 65 person company - an all-Microsoft shop. I have a Mac at home, so that tells you something right there.
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| lantzn |
11/25/03, 4:02 PM EDT |
Tell your family you're retiring from working on Windows machines and will only work on Macs. Believe me it works when they have to pay someone to work on their Windows machine. They tend to buy Macs on their next purchase.
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| BJ |
11/25/03, 4:59 PM EDT |
Missing dlls? Virii? Your parents are idiots. They shouldn't use computers at all.
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| Joe |
11/25/03, 5:52 PM EDT |
You aren't really selling people on the idea of using Mac's. Essentially you are telling everyone that you come from completely idiotic parents who obviously have some computer deficiency. This deficiency must have been genetic and caused you to use Macs.
I mean, missing DLL's and Viruses have never happened to me in all of my years using PC's. I make this claim without having used Norton AntiVirus or any such program as that.
Before anyone flames me as being a PC troll I have been an avid user of both Mac's and PC's for my entire life as a computer user. I don't have any biases towards one or the other, but lets just call a spade a spade. If you are getting missing DLL's and stuff like that, it's because they have been deleted by you. The virus stuff is only happening because you are opening emails that promise to show cute videos of puppies eating ice cream but instead have viruses attached.
This article does not reflect the life of a typical PC user, it just shows the ineptitude of one PC user.
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| Matt |
11/25/03, 6:04 PM EDT |
I have a mac at work that crashes (litteraly locks up)everytime I try to scan an image from a scsi scanner...
soo does that mean everyone elses mac would have the same problem....
I seriously doubt it...
Does this mean all macs suck...
If I'm as biased as the people writing theese articles...well then YES....
Quote
" I'm with you, bro. I am the IT manager at a 65 person company - an all-Microsoft shop. I have a Mac at home, so that tells you something right there. "......Kevin
Yeah ..that tells me you should get a new job....
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| iKen |
11/26/03, 12:38 AM EDT |
"This article does not reflect the life of a typical PC user, it just shows the ineptitude of one PC user."
This is just an example, I see this stuff all the time... I have been working phone tech support for 4 years, and every day I hear the same problems, exactly as described here, among many others. Problems I never see my Mac having. This is a typical windows experience, I have seen it first hand on a daily basis.
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| Matt |
11/26/03, 2:15 AM EDT |
NO....you only see and retain waht you want to ...all the bad stuff...and when people say something bad about the mac , it's like...."ohh that guys full of it"...
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| PantherPPC |
11/26/03, 3:50 AM EDT |
If this is such a rare thing, than why is Windows the only operating system that's known for this kind of stuff? OS X sure isn't. Nor Linux. Nor Solaris. BeOS never had these problems.
I don't consider any user inept. No everyday task should be so complicated that someone, anyone, can't figure out how to do it. The basic concept concept of web browsing hasn't gotten anymore complicated for the past 5 years. It's Microsofts responsibility as the market leader to evolve their software to fit the needs of the majority of it's customers, and that means decent, simple to use virus protection and/or prevention that works, and at least a damn popup blocker. Every other OS maker has covered this with ease. A product like Windows that is sold on such a large scale needs to be idiot proof. This means keeping the user safe from viruses without the user having to worry about it at all. It means letting them do what they bought the product to do without hassle. Microsoft has fallen short on all these accounts.
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| Matt |
11/26/03, 1:41 PM EDT |
If Apple had the majority of the market and windows was in Apples place..then all the security issues , viruses etc...would all be on apples shoulder..why would someone write a virus to mess up 100 computers...when you can write one to mess up 1 million computers..Mac's are simply not in the big picture , for organizations using servers for transactions...(maybe a few exeptions) but nowhere near the scale...like ebay or amazon. google ..sure i'll bet they use linux or unix or sun...but I'll bet they use microsoft products in tandem...Soo basically ...Macs are a secret..Why would you guys go around ranting about macs...you're just inviting the same problems that other computers have, that sell 100x more than Apple..not to mention a giant user/admin base vs. a small one ... so say 1 out of 10 macs needs tech support.
How could you gauge how many Windows computers needs support . let's say for your biased sake it's a 3 to 1 ratio:
And in this bigger pool of users , just like anything else theres bound to be more people who have no idea what the hell is going on..(putting floppys in the cd Drive etc.)Just like if you go to the movies ..if it's crowded..you've got 5 guys that don't turn off thier cell phones, vs. not crowded, 1 guy that did not turn off his cell phone...Why is that soo hard to comprehend?
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| Jonahan |
11/26/03, 2:20 PM EDT |
Aside from the block of text above this one, great comments guys :)
Joe and BJ, I have to disagree. I too worked in Tech Support for years, and in sharing a Windows PC with a coworker we would have missing DLL's all over the place from different programs we had installed/uninstalled.
You can call me inept as well if you want to, but if a gaggle of Technicians (whose job is to fix Windows problems) continually have problems with Windows and the only solution is to "reinstall Windows", then there's obviously something wrong with the product.
Granted, Windows has gotten better with each release, but big problems do yet exist.
And hey, use whatever you want, but you can't deny that a Mac just plain has less problems than a computer that runs Windows!
Try uninstalling an OS X app (drag the .app file to the trash) versus uninstalling a Windows app (most need a separate uninstaller program that cleans up all the files and if you're lucky the registry).
So slap me with a salmon and call me Fiddlesticks McGee .............
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| HTML Samurai |
11/26/03, 2:44 PM EDT |
"..why would someone write a virus to mess up 100 computers...when you can write one to mess up 1 million computers.." Then why, Matt, do you feel the need to be part of this "majority?" I mean are we going back to the old theory that states something smart like "if everyone uses it, it must be the best" regardless if it is full of bugs, security holes and whatnot.
I can appreciate the fact that you have had bad experiences with a Mac, I have had a few not bad experiences with Windows. But at the end of the day, I'd rather not update my virus scanner, patch security holes, update ad-awre, run defrag, reboot after the smallest config change, and have to download a separate pop-up blocker just to feel safe, and be able to use my computer.
Sure, I have to do security updates for both Linux and Mac - it's a part of life! But that other stuff is ridiculous, especially when you have other choices that don't require such steps. Sorry dude, I have more important things to do with my time... like hanging out here, talking to you about it... I gotta go!
PS:
Don't talk trash about iKen's Mom, that's just not cool!
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| Matt |
11/26/03, 2:59 PM EDT |
The truth hurts...Doesn't it...
Where did I talk trash on anyones mom?
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| HTML Samurai |
11/26/03, 3:58 PM EDT |
Not everything is about you Matt, The part about iKen's Mom was actually directed to the people saying that the computer in question was owned/used by a total idiot.
And what exactly did you mean by "The truth hurts...Doesn't it...?"
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| Matt |
11/26/03, 4:18 PM EDT |
The truth is...How can you relate The problems on one computer to the whole...
I've already said it..
" I have a mac at work that crashes (litteraly locks up)everytime I try to scan an image from a scsi scanner...
soo does that mean everyone elses mac would have the same problem....
I seriously doubt it...
Does this mean all macs suck...
If I'm as biased as the people writing theese articles...well then YES...."
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| Hoe |
11/26/03, 6:30 PM EDT |
"I too worked in Tech Support for years, and in sharing a Windows PC with a coworker we would have missing DLL's all over the place from different programs we had installed/uninstalled."
Okay, maybe you aren't inept. It must've been you're coworker. Give me a break. There seemd to be a lot of people here who claim to have been tech support for windows machines. I think I smell bull[doodoo].
Regardless, having used both Mac's and PC's throughout my life I do see a lot of the bull[doodoo] on both sides of the fence. I see perceptions that both sides have about one platform or another and just laugh. I mean, I was just reading on another sight about one guy who claimed to have installed on game on his PC and then another game which in turn caused the first game to stop working. This is the excuse he gave for switching to a Mac. This to is an utter impossibilty and would never happen at all on either platform. I also hear people screaming "Blue Screen of Death" about windows. Once again, this never happens on any newer version of windows and rarely happened on older versions. Hell before OSX Mac's would crash like they were going otu of style. I could barely run Media Cleaner without it freezing two hours into the process. Then again, OSX has been known to crash every now and then. The point is that you're taking a few bad examples and using them as a blanket observation for one whole platform. It's idiotic and really closes your eyes to the benefits of both systems.
As far as Internet Explorer goes, I agree that Microsoft should add in a pop-up blocker. It seems basic. But then again I don't use IE, I use Firebird.
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| Matt |
11/26/03, 7:17 PM EDT |
Amen Brother....There will be pop up blocking in the next release of IE...But I as well use Firebird...witch is another point to the whole scale of things...just because you use windows...doesn't mean you have to use everything Microsoft...
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| stickman67 |
11/26/03, 11:08 PM EDT |
As far as I can make out, Macs and OS X have some problems. But Windows XP is a problem ...
OK, OK, gratuitous flame bait!
I just love these Mac v PC debates. It's like arguing over the colour of a turd -- no one wins, and there's this stench about the whole thing ...
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| katdaddy1k |
11/27/03, 8:53 PM EDT |
It seems people are always raving about how good macs are and switching from windows is easy as pie. Well, I'm a windows guy who recently bought a used mac (PM7500, OS 9.1)just to learn them. Well aside from the system pausing everytime I press the mouse button and or launch a program, general use is not bad, if you enjoy having dozens of finder windows open so you can launch a program (yes I know this is fixed in X). Of course on the occasion that something does go wrong and I have to force reset the computer it would be nice to have a bios selection to choose what drive to boot from if the primary is trashed, none of the boot keys other then 'C' do any good for either harddrive or the zip selection (I usually have to zap the pram). Basically, yes windows has some minor problems that occur during normal use, but I've known mac people who swear they cant live without regular use of techtool to keep it running right, on windows you have small programs namely antivirus and adaware for the same reason. other problems are usually the fault of the user installing that 'fun' little program they found on google that warns it may cause system instabilities (mac utils give this warning too). In short, I think that anyone who thinks windows is complete crap is just a little biased and sitting on their pedastal in the small private club of mac users and you need to get over yourself and live in the real world for a while. Everyone has a choice when they buy a computer, so be happy with your choice, and quit bashing the others.
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| iKen |
11/27/03, 11:04 PM EDT |
"There seemd to be a lot of people here who claim to have been tech support for windows machines. I think I smell bulldoodoo."
The guys who produce 2 guys are a group of buddies that met while working for ISP tech support.
As for all you trolls, I don't get it. Why come to a Mac site just to bash mac's, claim windows is better, and call us all idiots?
"Everyone has a choice when they buy a computer, so be happy with your choice, and quit bashing the others"
Amen, now practice what you preach
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| Matt |
11/27/03, 11:58 PM EDT |
I don't come here to bash macs...
I come here to get a laugh out of all the uninformed users...
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| HTML Samurai |
11/28/03, 8:47 AM EDT |
"Uninformed?" Us?
You hate Macs because you use one that crashes when doing a specific task. You have not mentioned any steps used to correct the problem or asked for help with it in the forums (that I have noticed). I prefer to not use Windows whenever possible because of my personal experiences, not what happened to Joe Schmoe down the street, around the corner, or on any website. In my time of doing Internet, Networking, and hardware support - both on the phone and on site - I have fixed and helped others fix literally thousands of software and hardware related problems (in my ten years in the industry). As has Jonahan and iKen. Hell, Jonahan used to be a Net Admin for 50 or so Windows machines. Yeah, sure, we're uninformed!
"Private club?"
We are not some sort of elite club that does not allow or welcome outside views, otherwise your IPs would have been blocked and your comments deleted and ignored! And as for our "pedestal" you mentioned, we are sharing experiences and having a few laughs here. Lighten up, and get over yourself! If you've read any of my articles, you would know I am not a "Mac Lover" so to speak, I use one at work and I own one (the one I own is not even running a Mac OS), but I love hanging out here - they let me express my opinions as well as stating facts (and they are a great bunch of guys to boot).
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| MrHasBean |
11/28/03, 8:53 AM EDT |
Hey Matt, what version of MacOS is running on that Mac you use at work? Do USB scanners and live demos of windows bring back any memories?
The question here is not about whether a poorly written driver can kill an OS or not. That is a given on MacOS, Windows or Linux. The question being raised in the original article relates to things out of the user's control that go wrong on a day-to-day basis and the difficulties encountered by both experienced users and novices alike on Windows when they try to fix these daily problems.
I use and support both OSes on a daily basis - mainly in the education and small business environments. I also run web / mail / proxy /DNS etc servers - on Linux and OSX. I will never claim that Mac OS doesn't crash. My OSX iBook gave me its lovely little "...you need to press the restart button..." message just the other day - just after installing a generic webcam driver. Prior to that crash it hadn't been shut down / restarted for over six weeks, during which time my web browser was open the whole time (I just close the lid when its not is use and open it when I'm ready to work).
The reality is however that on a per machine basis Windows machines crash, get viruses, are infected with spyware, and need regular reformats and reinstalls much more frequently than Macs.
Across 7 major client sites I am responsible for a total of about 130 PC's (on two sites) and around 155 Macs (on the other 5 sites). We need a full time tech, plus two others each spending about 30% of their time every week supporting the PC's just to keep them runing. We spend between 10 and 15 hours each week TOTAL supporting the 150+ Macs. These are real figures, not just something plucked out of the air. Our business has been running for over seven years and I have been involved in the industry for over 17 years total and these are the sorts of ratios we've always experienced. Undoubtedly Windows has improved, but Mac OS has improved proportionately.
And the other interesting stat in all of that is that the Macs get used for a much more diverse range of applications than the PC's because the users have more confidence that they're not about to fall over.
Matt you also suggest there are very few Macs "out there". Maybe some research is in order. Yes there are MicroShyte loads more PC's than Macs in the marketplace, but a seriously good virus for the Mac would see casualties into the millions. It has nothing to do with numbers, it has everything to do with security. A more valid comparison would be stealing a car with the doors unlocked, windows down (pardon the pun) and keys in the ignition as opposed to something locked up tight with engine immobilizer and security system active.
There are undoubtedly Windows users out there who legitimately never experience problems with their machines - one day I may bump in to one...
PS. Matt, check if Virtual Memory is active on your work Mac (if its running OS 9.x). If it is, turn it off, restart and try scanning again. Hope this helps...
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| Matt |
11/28/03, 12:43 PM EDT |
I think Some of you guys are missing the concept:
I could easily , having a problem with my G4 just throw my hands up in the air and say "thats it macs suck" ...but is that true?...No...it means ..that I'm a lame user.and I want to try to tell people they will have the same experience that I wll...
And it takes a guy like me in here to help people with the other side of the issues you're not stating properly..
soo basically the real culprit here is poor journalistic integrity..You guys should spend more time finding "actual results as to why Brand X is better or worse than brand Z...Because if the things you were saying actually had a foundation I'd have nothing to gripe about..in fact I might even start using my mac more...I'm looking for a reason to get a G5 ..not a reason NOT to get a PC...Soo as long as your site is comprised of "fanboy rants" and no objective comparisons..you are doing no justice to the macintosh platform..but helping people see that the majority of mac users..have shielded thier eyes to anything that doesn't say Apple...you can give me your computing history all you want ...But I've got a better idea ...put it to use ...Walk the walk...Like so
I use Maya Every day...Im interested in the G5 to see how well maya is running on this platform..
I ran a rendertest From Highend3d.com from the Maya test center
Heres the specs
Dell Laptop
3.06 Ghz
512 Ram
Geforce Fx 5200 go
Rendertime 1:09
G5
Dual 2.0 Ghz
512 Ram
Videocard not stated..
(Im assuming ati 9600 pro)
Rendertime: 2:22
G5
single 1.8 ghz
1500 ram
Video unknown
rendertime 2:00
Soo it's clear that the g5 is currently having issues with dual cpu's if the 1800 is rendering faster than a dual 2000..if things were working correcty the dual mac might possibly break the 1 minute mark in render times witch could be a very tempting reason to move my maya platform over to the mac...Even then A dual Xeon 2.4 renders the scene in 53 seconds witch is where I'm estimating the Dual 2.0 g5 would land.
As far as 64 bit goes the comparrison is moot, as the applications and the cpu's compared were all running in 32 bit..
Soo theres my objective view of the mac ...And you know what if I don't know how to use a computer...any computer...It's my fault...not the makers...
But sure I can't tell you how to run this site....but you can't block the whole world's IP's either...Me, I get a new IP everyday...
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| Jonahan |
11/28/03, 3:08 PM EDT |
Well, I'm glad that we're all at least being civil, and I thank everyone for that. (BTW - Matt - I don't think we blocked any of your comments, just edited them so they were PG.)
I gotta say though, that while many of us are pro-Mac, that does not mean that we think Apple is infallible. I've said it b4 and I'll say it again - Apple is a company like any other, and they screw up just like any other. But they do (usually) make great products and their quality level is excellent.
There's always a bad apple (bad pun intended) in every bunch, and due to chance, some people are bound to have problems with hardware no matter who they bought it from. Happens with Apple, Dell, HP, etc., but at least with Apple your odds are better of not getting a lemon, and even if you do, Apple will take care of it with aplomb and leave you one happy customer.
Sure there are exceptions to this, but for the most part it's true. Some of this, granted, may be my opinion - but it's true that Apple does consistently well in surveys of their Tech Support (even in PC magazines)
But ... somehow things got twisted here. The point of iKen's article was how easy it was to get Spyware/Adware/Viruses while surfing the 'Net with a Windows machine.
That's it. If you want to argue how a Mac can get Spyware or catch a virus, go ahead.
But anything else is just going off-topic. If you want to argue CPU speed, start a forum topic or request that we write a story about it, or hell, do the research on your own and request a writer's account.
But back to the spyware thing - my girlfriends brother was surfing a couple different porn sites last weekend (while the Buckeyes were getting trounced) and he managed to get all sorts of Spyware and 4 viruses installed.
Say what you want about Virus scanners, but they're not perfect, and not everyone knows enough to install one, or to keep it up to date. And if someone isn't lucky enough to have a friend or family member that knows computers, a lot of the time they have to take it to the shop and pay out the nose to have the machine "deloused".
So that is one of the big reasons a lot of us won't do Windows. It's not Mac Vs. Windows. It's just anything that's not Windows.
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| rlhamon |
11/28/03, 3:25 PM EDT |
Hey matt could you copy the test results that you personally ran and save them as a pdf and if you can let me know I'll give you my e-mail and I'll post them on a website and come to this site and give a link to it.
I really would like to see your results.
My point is if you have access to a p4 3.06 to a dual g5 2.0 and a g5 1.8 and your testing has shown that the p4 ran the app that you use the most faster then why would you come to a website trying to make up your mind.
Also why would you call us misinformed when we feel that the mac is the best platform ... it could be for what we do on a daily bases. If you go to dell they would tell you that they make the best system. The question does people take time to brag make a website about how great there dell is? If anyone know of one please send me the link. I doubt it though why dell uses Microsoft Windows which means your downloading your daily security fix and updating your virus definition files and running spybot to rid your self of the spywear from the last time you surfed the web.
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| matt |
11/28/03, 3:42 PM EDT |
I have Access to a thousand machines...It's called http://www.highend3d.com/tests/maya/testcenter/
It all there for you....thoug not the Dell I use they haven't posted that yet..If I had a G5 why would I be looking to buy one..I guess I didn't state that properly...
But If your'e not being sarchastic then I can send you a bench of my laptop and my two workstations....
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| stickman67 |
11/28/03, 10:00 PM EDT |
Well, guess we cleared that one up. There won't be any more fights about which platform and which OS are the best because the answers are obvious to anyone who reads these comments. Excellent!
ROFLMAO
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| MrHasBean |
11/28/03, 10:05 PM EDT |
Hey Matt, did you ever think that maybe its Maya that has the issue with the dual processor systems? Other apps seem to be accelerated...
Reality check here too, there are numerous people here who have given real life experiences about things RELATED TO the original article, but alas it appears you don't believe them, soooo, we must wonder, if we posted real life experiences about other things such as you have suggested and they showed the Mac beating the snot out the the PC, would you put as much credibility in those posts as you have in the current ones???
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| Matt |
11/29/03, 12:10 AM EDT |
Sure....but first you've got to show me ...theese "Snot Beatings".....
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| HTML Samurai |
11/30/03, 11:08 AM EDT |
I have a feeling that we can show you, but you still won't see...
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| Matt |
11/30/03, 11:25 AM EDT |
There you go....keep talking the talk.....
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| HTML Samurai |
11/30/03, 1:07 PM EDT |
You know what Matt, I leaving this conversation... You don't want to hear facts, if you did, you wouldn't change the subject everytime we stated one. I don't have the time it would take to help you remove your head from that dark FUD filled place it resides. If all you do is use Maya, then you prolly have a pretty good idea on what it takes to run it. I don't, never have and prolly never will. Good luck with that, and I hope the research you use to make your decision for the platform you choose to run it on is accurate. As I have said before, I use a Mac at work, mostly Linux at home and I have a Windows box for playing games. I know what works for me. I know what OS gives me what problems. If I don't find a way around it or thru it, that is my fault. I am not going to go to a "I Love Windows" web site and bitch about a blue screen of death I get when I start playing Pong. If I go there, it will to ask for advise for a way to fix it. If they start talking trash about Mac or Linux, I will try to offer my experiences and limited knowledge WITHOUT flaming or getting flamed. So thanks for the information on Maya, if I ever meed to use Maya, I will know where to go to get more information. I wish I could offer the same thanks for your views on the PC vs. Mac "debate.
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| Matt |
11/30/03, 1:18 PM EDT |
You're a pretty funny guy....thanks for Helping me make my point.....
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| stickman67 |
11/30/03, 10:08 PM EDT |
Ah, the cut and thrust of witty repartee!
Shame there's none of it here, of course ...
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| iBoko_sama |
12/2/03, 6:12 AM EDT |
Which operating system is better?
The answer is simple.
It's a matter of opinion and functionality.
I decided that I wanted to buy an iBook. Am I going to "Switch" completely? No. I'm a gamer and I use my XP Machine for tons of stuff. Do I think that MacOS is a good choice for me as a laptop? Yes. It allows me to get the work done that I need to, faster. Not to mention that I really love the iLife apps.
Both platforms have their ups and downs. If you don't like Macs, don't just come to these forums without any arguments, give valid reasons. Then I'll listen. I'm not talking specifically to Matt here, but to anyone who may come here with a sour attitude towards ANY operating system; If you use proper english and use logic in your arguments, you will get your point across and people will listen. If you just come in here and say "You're wrong, I don't believe you," nobody will listen.
Also, saying that Macs don't have right clicking or scroll wheels isn't an argument. That's just ignorant.
Now, what I think:
It is a FACT that windows as an OS is easier to damage than MacOS if you are uneducated. Linux is far easier to damage if you are uneducated, but I'm going to focus on Mac and Windows because that is the main topic of htis discussion. Through general use, an uneducated person will obtain viruses and spyware, and (although this is more rare in XP than in previous versions of windows) missing DLL's. Now, I'm not saying that this will ALWAYS happen to an uneducated person, not am I saying that you have to be educated to use windows, but windows is slightly higher maintenance.
You can argue that it is because there are more users or whatever reason, but the bottom line is that windows puts more burdens on the educated user. I can use a mac and not worry about viruses, spyware, or missing DLL's. That is the point the Maccies here are trying to make.
No, windows doesn't suck, it's an awesome operating system that has improved IMMENSELY over the years.
MacOS, for whatever reason, just makes life a little easier for the user, but has an entirely different platform from windows.
And that's the bottom line.
Also -- I'm not a tech support guy, I don't even have a job. I'm a high school student and will be turning 16 in April. I'm also a geek, and proud of it.
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| iKen |
12/2/03, 1:45 PM EDT |
thanks iboko_sama, that is what we were trying to say. You put it well.
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| Matt |
12/4/03, 1:25 PM EDT |
OK.....Soo...what you're saying is that iKen is uneducated?
Plus ...you guys don't even want to hear what someone from the other side has to say...If you do ..the please summarize the point I am trying to make...Because nothing you've said has anything to do with what I said....
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| HTML Samurai |
12/5/03, 4:24 PM EDT |
"...you guys don't even want to hear what someone from the other side has to say..."
As I said before, if we didn't want your comments here, they wouldn't be here!
"...Because nothing you've said has anything to do with what I said..."
That is because everything you said has nothing to do with anything anyone else said!
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| Aitrus |
12/29/03, 9:35 AM EDT |
First off, I've been dying to say something here... Even if the point is for the purposes of making a humorous observation.
I for one - would be glad to have lots of windows machines if I were a tech - Why? Work opportunity.
It's been stated before that certain techs here spend much more time working on Windows machines, and much less time working on Macs -
Don't you realize that by promoting a more stable operating system, you're moreless pushing to lose your job?
What's the purpose of having a tech for a machine that doesn't get viruses, rarely crashes, and is overall next to perfect?
Think, Techies!
Sure, the Mac is an awsome machine, but what will you do when there are no more issues to resolve?
:P
Anyhow, aside from that, I wanted to put in my two cents. I am a windows user. Why? Because it's all I have ever known - I've used macs on all of three rare occations in my life - and that's not so much that I don't care to use them - it's that my access to one is very limited - and even then, being so accustomed to Windows, I'm not sure where to start with a mac.
Alot of people have said that they 'switched' very easily - well, what about those of us that are completely unfamiliar with the Mac environment? Someone like myself has no clue what the heck to do with the interface - I'm a fairly experienced windows user - I do things on my computer that some people look at and think hacker - while honestly - it's just routine tweaking for me. I've very rarely had issues with viruses, missing dlls, and so on - why? Because I took the time to install the virus scanner, the popup killer, and I've set everything up to auto-update when I'm usually asleep.
My point is - that what it really comes straight down to - to me at least - is user experience - someone accustomed to using a mac will rarely have problems - while someone like me - who is accustomed to a completely different operating system will be confused and somewhat irritated - and most likely - will cause some damage to the system by doing something they have no idea about.
I'm not here to say that one system is better than the other - if I was - I would say that macs have the upper hand when it comes to security issues - they just don't have the allure for viruses that windows machines do - However, when it comes to software selection, ease of upgrading, familiarity, and general ease of use - (I say this because I'm more familiar with the platform, as are many people), and the like - go with Windows.
Either way - find what is comfortable for you - and learn as much as you can about it.
Anyone can have a good healthy computer system - regardless of OS, peripherals, and so on - just choose what you are comfortable with, and know how to keep your machine well maintained.
PS: I'd like to buy a mac - but I'm such a power hungry freak - the system I'd have to have would run me close to $4,000 buckeroos or more. :P
Send feedback to: [email protected]
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| Jonahan |
3/17/04, 2:12 PM EDT |
Aitrus:
You said: "I've very rarely had issues with viruses, missing dlls, and so on - why? Because I took the time to install the virus scanner, the popup killer, and I've set everything up to auto-update when I'm usually asleep."
That's kind of the whole point. Why should a user have to fiddle with all that stuff just to have a system that works and is secure?
Speaking of security, it appears you've played the "Security through obscurity card. You said:
"I would say that macs have the upper hand when it comes to security issues - they just don't have the allure for viruses that windows machines do"
Does that mean people don't try to write viruses for Windows? BS. OS X is a prime target because of it's rarity. A hacker would make a name for himself. And if you were a regular here, you'd know that in a hacking competition, Macs were awarded th e most points if they were compromised.
More info to smash the security thru obscurity myth can be found here, he re, and here.
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| Chuck |
3/19/04, 12:33 AM EDT |
Folks, I've got a fresh idea for all the Mac and Windows users posting comments here: Try harder to develop your language skills. It's hard to take anything you say seriously when it is clear (often painfully) you can barely articulate a complete sentence. Passion and loyalty are important, but when the quality of your supportive prose equates to a literary cluster [edited]naughty word[/edited] , something is detracted from the defense. It's just too easy to dismiss you as a moron. Regarding your opinion, I might tend to give a [doodoo] if I can first confirm you're speaking English.
Please allow this additional observation. No amount of bickering, well executed or otherwise, is going to change the fact that we live in a Windows world. True advocates of the Mac OS platform, among whose ranks I count myself, would be well served to adjust attitudes toward Microsoft and its users. Defensive, knee-jerk responses to all things 'Windows' alienates the Mac community and platform from a growing number of IT professionals currently giving its merits serious consideration.
If you are smart, you will understand that coexisting and thriving within the existing Windows infrastructure is the new and essential niche for Apple. This includes culture. Verbally bashing the Windows platform is both conterproductive and, as in the case of this essay, overreactive. As an engineer with years of experience and premier certifications on both platforms, I have seen my share of ID-10-T errors from both camps, and the most serious ones generally have less to do with the platform than a lack of user proficiency. To accomplish your goals, focus on educating people about the OS (presumming you really know what the hell your talking about) not insulting their collective intelligence for choosing an alternative.
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| Jonahan |
3/19/04, 12:46 PM EDT |
Chuck: Bravo.
Sometimes some of us here overreact a bit - true.
But the primary reason of this site is to inform people that there is, in fact, an alternative.
That said, again, thank you for your well thought out comment.
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