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Poor Little Microsoft |
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 Ok, here's some funny stuff to help us get this week started. According to a Silicon.com article (also syndicated at ZDnet), Microsoft is going on a "myth-busting" tour.
That's right, apparently poor little Microsoft is tired of all the lies being perpetrated by the money-grubbing open-source/Linux community. Quoth the article:
"Microsoft has launched its 'Get the Facts' road show--the tech equivalent of a political battle bus--to tour the country and convince the wavering that Redmond is as at least cheap and as secure as its open-source rival.
One of the issues that Microsoft takes umbrage with is that (in Microsoft's eyes at least) Linux isn't "free" and yet many people say it is. They say that Linux vendors aren't just giving away their products, they're charging for them, and while components of Linux are free, most businesses do have to pay for some portion of Linux.
Secondly, security is a huge issue that Microsoft seeks to "educate" people about. They say that the tools are there for Windows to be secure - but that they just need to be switched on by the user. While enabling the built-in software firewall in XP would go a long way to making Windows more secure, I don't think many would argue that it would be anywhere close to Linux. And Microsoft is somewhat smart not to make that statement. In the article, not one word is said about Windows being better in any way than Linux (I don't know how one could make that argument anyhow, although MS might find a way), but one Microsoft exec did state that they, "may not have an independent community looking out for flaws, but it has staff employed to exactly the same ends".
Surely these are righteous arguments, ones that I'm sure that the freedom fighters out there will fervently rally behind. Microsoft's cause is just and we must correct these grievous transgressions and misconceptions. (More sarcasm later.)
In any case, it's not like Microsoft hasn't done this sort of thing before. Remember the fake grassroots campaign, where they started a Web site that pretended to be about average people (not associated with the company) that really cared about the company? It was almost like they were trying to fabricate the huge and passionate followings that Apple and the open-source community have.
Then there was the fake switcher ad, where Microsoft (supposedly) couldn't find someone who had actually switched from Mac to Windows (or maybe they were just too embarrased to admit it) so they created one out of thin air. They just pulled a stock piece of photography and wrote up some text to say exactly what they wanted. Possible legality and/or morality aside, that's some durned good marketing!
But hey, let's cut Microsoft a break. They churn out great products that people get excited about, they lead the industry with their innovation and forward-thinking, and they have a CEO whom you can both respect and applaud. Oh, and they have a great slogan too: "Your potential. Our passion."
Ow... I think I sprained my frontal sarcasm lobe. I've got to go lie down for a bit, but make sure you vote in our poll about Microsoft's next slogan.
Damn, I should really stretch before attempting that much...
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June 14 2004, 8:42 AM EDT, by
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Comments:
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| rlhamon |
6/14/04, 10:56 AM EDT |
Microsoft is totally right on Linux isn't totally free ... You may have to buy a book to learn how to use features built in Linux and trust me those books do cost money , and Yes a CD with a Linux installation may come with that book but I'm sure the company has factored in a cost for that CD which makes it not free. If you say that you want to download it off of the internet then you have to pay for an internet provider preferably high speed internet and that's very pricey. You also would need to burn it to a CD and that CD isn't free so you do have to factor a cost there also. So to say Linux is free you have to have a careful eye because you may have to spend money on something else before you can get your copy of Linux.
So tell Linux fans your fed up with the free talk because that copy of Linux did cost you three CD's and that is like $1.50 and last time I checked a $1.50 wasn't free.
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| Jonahan |
6/14/04, 11:00 AM EDT |
Good point - something I forgot to add (sorry) was that the guy who wrote the article implied that maybe Linux users mean free as in "free speech" and that no one company or person has control over the product. In that regard, Linux -is- free.
But yeah, obviously MS is battling the $$$$ angle of it.
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| sweetjimmyhugs jr. jr. esq. |
6/14/04, 11:29 AM EDT |
$1.50 is a lot to a fifth grader like me.
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| nhmacusr |
6/14/04, 12:10 PM EDT |
All of this talk about $$$$$ is not as relevant to the everyday user. Unfortunately, some distributions are beginning to make Micrsoft look competitive. You have to look at it from the corporate prospective.
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Advanced Server
$1499 (7 platforms)
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Enterprise Server
$349 (1 Platform)
Red HAt Linux Enterprise Workstation
$179 (3 platforms)
Granted, you can legally put the software on as many platforms as you like. The rub is you only get support on the platforms that you pay for. While this isn't exactly free, it still beats paying for vapor support from Microsoft.
In the meantime, if anyone would care to look.........
Mac OS X Server v10.3 (unlimited client license)
$999.00
...and as an added bonus, you don't have to run crappy wintel hardware......hmmmmmmmmm
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| nhmacusr |
6/14/04, 12:15 PM EDT |
Here it is...
http://management.itmanagersjournal.com/management/04/06/04/21142 22.shtml?tid=85&tid=89
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| cAtraXx |
6/14/04, 1:53 PM EDT |
()/)("/")(!%&!%*** !!!
Ok, this is our chance guys. Lets blow this f****** bus up ! What do you say ? We buy a few Mps and and some hand granades and then we send the bastards straight to hell.
nhmacusr: Don't get me wrong, but if you aren't runnig a print server or something the OS X server is just way to expensive because of the hardware. As much as i love Apple, but this is simply true. For a high end server, let's say a rack of Xserves, you pay much more then for some Wintel racks. And maybe you shouldn't exactly look at the distris *everybody* is after most linux distris (if not all) can be downloaded for free, they normally only charge you for the cd and the manual which is perfectly understandeble. If i _had_ the money i'd still buy a Apple server of course, but that's besides the point. ;)
rlhamon:
1.50 $ is not much more then some ice cram ... can't even buy cigarettes for that. It's really nothing :P
Guys really ... do not use M$'s strategies to strike against a community that basicly is on our side, we can not afford to bitch about them since they go the way we all once praised Apple for (Unix, open source) much longer then we did. After all we can not afford to lose any possible allies in this war.
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| nhmacusr |
6/14/04, 3:27 PM EDT |
cAtraXx
I understand what you are saying, but you are looking at this from a user perspective. The people microsoft are trying to get don't run a rack of 10 machines. These guys run Sun servers that start at 50K. The Apple Xserve is starting to look a little better here. Xserve pricing is actually right in line (and a better deal I might add).
An IT manager that walked into a board meeting with a fistfull of Staples CDs and said this is our new strategy would be looking for a new job before the CDs hit the table.
I am not saying that Microsoft is right. And I am saying that OS X server is the best bang for the buck in the long run (again look at Sun pricing).
I just think that the mainline distos (Red Hat in particular - unfortunately Suse is getting there) are learning some really hard lessons.
I agree, Open Source, if used appropriately and knowledgably, can be a great benefit and cost cutting feature to companies. The problem is where you put the cost.
We run a small shop here so we don't buy into the big dollar disros. That works out well for us, because we don't have that much to keep up with. Someone with a lot more hardware will need better means to keep control. This is also the difference between OS X and OS X server. The operating systems are, for the most part, identical. With OS X server, you get all of Apples custom support software. Things you really need when the number of machines increases. As a normal user, if you are just a little savy on the command line and can use a text editor you are rolling. There is no need for OS X server.
I think the real issue here is what your getting for your dollar. In most cases Open Source will not be free. Whether you are paying someone like Red Hat or some admin to keep track of your systems. the real issue is that for your money you will get far better services and support (and as an added bonus lower costs). With Microsoft you get higher prices and just about zero in support (oh except if you pay by the hour). Plus you will still need to hire an army of admins.
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| cAtraXx |
6/14/04, 3:44 PM EDT |
nhmacusr:
But you'll need the very same for any Xserve. Having Apples support does not mean that'll help you with every problem you have, so what you need is a admin that understands perfectly just how the OS X Server works. For bigger machines like Servers for ISPs or supercomputers/Clusters you'll need the same or even a team of Admins. The difference is that as a big company you get technical support for PCs very cheap here in germany nowadays and Apples technical support for their servers isn't free aswell.
The linux community in fact never said that it would be free to run a server. The words "It's free dammit !" rever to normal users. They are the ones who really profit from open source. However, if you run a server you'll always have to pay your personal If you're running Windows you also have the problem that the technical support is crappy (Not to mention that M$ doesn't give a s*** about your hardware). The support from Redhat and SuSe on the other side is good as far as i heard, no wonder since that's where they make their money in. Apples support is great, that's what i know from my own experience.
Fact is that Linux is getting more and more popular on the server market. The demand for skilled Linux admins is increasing and there are more and more specialists working with linux. Slowly, very slowly the bigger companies begin to realize just how much crap M$ sold them in the past. Both Linux and Apple have good alternatives to the II servers, but Linux is far more famous on the server market, Apples Xserve is relatively new on the market and yet has to prove itself worthy.
No company can expect to run a gigantic server and have no costs from it. And that's not what linux promises either. Their Operation System is free, meaning you can download and install it at any time on as many machines as you want and won't get into trouble. The big Linux companies also developed their own software like Windows Emus, new drivers render software and so on and so on ... this software still has to be paid, hasn't it ?
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| nhmacusr |
6/14/04, 5:00 PM EDT |
That's the rub. You can't download on as many machoines as you want to with the larger Distros. You are limited by how much you pay. I've been down that road. The support that they are offering is good. The updates are fantastic. They are not so fantastic if you have 1000 machines and only 1 can be updated. This is how the new support options are working from the big distros and the cost of that support is getting higher and higher.
The big linux companies don't add very much proprietary stuff. Look at Red Hat. They only add some admin apps and the support. There is nothing gained there.
I keep bringing up Red HAt, because it is the most popular in the US. One reason it is so popular here is Oracle. Many people are moving from windows to linux because they can run Oracle and get it supported.
Anotehr factor we are all forgetting here is a package deal. Look at getting hardware from IBM. Comes with Linux and it is well supported. Definately cheaper than a new Sun solution or Microsoft solution.
Things could get even more interesting as Sun has announced they are going to open source solaris. Now, I'll believe it when I see it, but it could be a powerful move if they take th same path as Apple with the operating system.
Expensive Apple support in Germany for the XServes? Sounds like a business opportunity for someone to me ;)
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| cAtraXx |
6/14/04, 5:34 PM EDT |
No, the support is as expensive as everywhere else, but the hardware is expensive. Another problem is that it's not easy to find qualified personal here, since Apples market share is small. If this was Japan, there'd be no problem, but here ? There are only a few companies interested in Apple, mainly they're into print and design. companies like that don't need no supercomputers, just a printserver and maybe a bigger data storage.
And correct me if i'm wrong, but i think updating a Os X Server system isn't exactly cheap either, or is it ? The updates cost nearly as much as the original software. And to be perfectly honest i don't think that apple will hold onto it's cheap unlimited user license program once they have sucess.
Damn. I hate speaking against Apple. But in my opinion Apple makes awesome computers for Designers, Musicians, Gamers and general personal use. The server market is new to them and you can still feel that. Unix and Linux have a long experience in this matter and that's what you can see if you have a perfectly set up linux server, they just run they're exellent workhorse, very efficient. I'm not sure Apple is made for the server market.
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| Jonahan |
6/14/04, 9:17 PM EDT |
Hey, I think all of us but SJH missed rlhamon's subtle sarcasm about the $1.50. Well done.
(* pats rlhamon on back *)
cAtraXx and nhmacuser: great posts, I'm still going thru and reading them. I'm not sure that most of the Mac and Linux users out there quite understand that their destinies are really tied together (for the most part). Brothers in arms against MS, eh?
Now, where are those grenades you promised cat? Load me up!
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| sweetjimmyhugs jr. jr. esq. |
6/14/04, 9:26 PM EDT |
hey, thats SJH junior junior esquire to you bub... I'm just trying out different salutations.
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| matty |
6/14/04, 9:34 PM EDT |
EMP - electromagnetic pulse
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| rlhamon |
6/14/04, 11:56 PM EDT |
A 1.50 isn't a lot .... well that's like 6 quarters or like a bottle of wild irish rose.
It's comes down to Microsoft can't stand the fact that someone is moving into their market. So if you never though that Microsoft was going to let Linux gain any market share without a fight you are sadly mistaken.
Also good call by cat Mac Os X Server unlimited users 999.00 I think that is what the IT market should be considering than RedHat or Microsoft.
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| moneybutt |
6/15/04, 12:24 AM EDT |
>>Also good call by cat Mac Os X Server unlimited users 999.00 I think that is what the IT market should be considering than RedHat or Microsoft.
Looks like M$ is saying us Mac OSX or freeBDS.
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| nhmacusr |
6/15/04, 9:36 AM EDT |
rlhamon - That is what I am talking about. Look at Virginia Tech. One of the reasons their cluster was so cheap (outside of getting academic pricing) was the unlimited server license.
By the way, I have posted elsewhere that if Apple wants to gain market share they need to price their academic line more competitively. I also believe having a staff Genius at major Universities (or even a store) would be a major plus.
Get 'em whilethey are young I say.
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| pizaul |
6/16/04, 12:10 AM EDT |
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! omg. thanks. i needed that. wow. microsoft needs to just go away.
i recently (in the last 3 months) switched from windows to linux on all of my computers. i'm using gentoo and i can do everything i did on my windows machines.....just faster, more stable, and more securely......and i haven't paid ONE CENT so far.
so far, i have my my desktop, which does everything my windows machine does, my servers, which i'm using for a web server, print server, and i will have mail and proxy services up very soon and i'm not one cent into it. just a little time and research which i'm more than happy to do for something that's actually stable and does what it's supposed to do (*cough cough* IIS is krap......*cough*)
i think this just goes to show that other os's and platforms are becoming more popular and M$ is getting scared. they should be. linux has come a long way IMO and it's come a long way very fast. i think it's evolving and improving faster than windows OS's. microsoft should be worried.....
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| Mr. I don't know what to say |
6/16/04, 11:03 AM EDT |
What do I say?!?! What do I say?!?! Uhhh... I'd shell out anything just to get a Mac, there's no way I'm going back now! Meh, good enough for me.
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| whatsinaname9000 |
6/16/04, 3:36 PM EDT |
hahaha...stupid microsoft
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| MacBuddy |
6/23/04, 12:20 PM EDT |
I usually prefix 'Freedom Fighters' with 'M$', but it depends on who I'm talking with.
I know what I mean, and I don't HAVE to be antagonistic ;-)
Like yesterday (no really), I was talking to Steve (not 'the' Steve, another one) who had bought Hitman for PS2, and he was at EB buying Freedom Fighters.
He asked me if I'd heard of FF, I answered that I know all about FF ;-). Only another group named that. He asked what I meant, and I answered that they're helping out Microsoft. He said, Oh.
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| HTML Samurai |
7/2/04, 3:07 PM EDT |
I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED THIS!!! Someone should have smacked me with a fishstick or something.
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