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iBook Logic Board Conclusion (Hopefully) |
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 I found myself with the rare opportunity tonight to sit down and write about something for the 2 Guys site. I wanted to write about something pertinent and newsworthy in the Mac world, but for the life of me I couldn't find anything that I could offer an interesting, humorous or at least slightly different opinion on. And that's not because there's not a lot going on - quite the opposite, in fact!
I mean, WWDC is right around the corner where Steve will be debuting Tiger (OS X 10.4), meanwhile OS X 10.3.4 came out today. On top of that, Apple landed at #3 in Wired's list of the top 40 companies that are "driving the global economy" (and Steve's side gig, Pixar nestled in nicely at #9). And if that weren't enough ammo for any Mac geek to get excited about, you'd think rumors of a new PowerPC 975 processor and an new iBook model with a SuperDrive would have given me some spark of a story. But no.
So long story short, I settled on talking (er typing) about a tech support experience I had with my iBook. The whole back story is archived for your perusal here, but the skinny of it is that I have one of those G3 iBooks with the recurring logic board problems, and I sent it to Apple late this past March for it's second repair (that's nothing really compared to some people - I know one guy that sent his in six times).
Where we last left the story, Apple quickly diagnosed the problem and sent me a mailer to get it to them and they would foot the bill for everything. Everything was cool so far. So I get the iBook back and they fixed it, like they did the first time: it booted up and worked fine without freezing up and spewing crazy lines across the screen.
Not everything was perfect however. I noticed a nick on the display's frame - not very big, but the anal Mac-lover that I am, I immediately noticed it and knew it wasn't there before I sent it. There was also a rubber foot missing from the bottom of the iBook - not a real big deal, but not very Apple-like of them to overlook something like that (I looked in the bag in case the foot had fallen off but didn't find it).
Lastly, I found out my Airport signal was immensely diminished. Where I had previously been able to get close to a full signal, I was lucky to get one bar (and nothing would load in Safari). On top of that, if I turned my Airport on, it seemed to wreak havok on ANY Airport reception for other users. I moved the iBook to within 10 feet from the base station and still couldn't get a full signal. Ok, I thought, something is obviously not right - maybe they forgot to connect the Airport antenna to the motherboard or something like that.
So I call Apple, and after I'm bounced around a few times, and then I'm on hold for just over two hours. Once I get on the horn with a Technician, I'm treated with the usual Apple professionalism, and even though the guy sounds like he thinks I'm making up the Airport problem, he arranges to have another mailer sent and they'll look at all the issues.
I have to say that at this point I wanted to talk to a higher-up, because it's the second time I've had to send the iBook back for the logic board, because of the problems I now had, because of the time I had to wait on hold, the time I'd be without my iBook again, and the fact that the logic board could at any moment go out again. So I eventually got to speak with someone from Customer Relations to see if there was anything else they could do. I'll freely admit that I was hoping to get a new iBook that wouldn't have the logic board problem, or barring that, at least something for the troubles I was going through - heck fix the damage you did and throw me an Apple hat or shirt or sticker or, well something. A shirt with Steve Jobs' sweat on it. Ok, that might actually be worth more than an iBook in some circles, but I digress.
But I have to stress that I didn't just want to get something for nothing. My faith in Apple's tech support was severely shaken at this point, and this is coming from an absolute Apple nut!
Alas, the Customer Relations person said that nothing would be done other than trying to fix the damage they'd done.
Well, I got the iBook back and Airport worked fine. In fact, the Airport signal seems to be stronger than it had been before I had any problems (so maybe the Airport antenna had been getting loose or something?) Also, sure enough there was one new white rubber foot that contrasts nicely with the other 3 dirty gray ones. ;-) That darned nick is still on the display frame and I know I didn't do it.
So that's my story. Bear in mind that I waited a long time before writing about it, just so I wouldn't be spouting a knee-jerk reaction. I guess I just really hope Apple gets their ass back in gear as far as Tech Support and quality control go. I mean, I feverishly recommend a Mac to anyone I know, but if Apple keeps slipping (in my mind at least) I may have a hard time advocating them quite so feverishly.
So whaddaya think? Is Apple slipping or is it just me? After all, my experience is only one out of thousands. Maybe they're getting better overall. One thing I do know is that I'll still take Apple hands down over Dell, Gateway, HewlettCompaqard, or anyone else out there! I'll probably just be buying AppleCare from now on........and maybe, just maybe, we've uncovered Steve Jobs' insidious plot to make more money - lower tech support quality to sell more AppleCare!
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May 26 2004, 9:53 PM EDT, by
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Comments:
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| sweetjimmyhugs |
5/27/04, 8:39 AM EDT |
Bad customer service to sell more AppleCare? Sounds almost Microsoftish.
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| Howard Chaney |
5/27/04, 9:05 AM EDT |
I too have an iBook and have experienced logic board problems. My iBook is currently at Apple for repair the fourth time.
Objecting having to send in for repair previously (third time), the "2nd tier" Apple representative told me, "Let's call this the last repair." The idea the representative gave me was that if it wasn't fixed appropriately this third attempt, Apple would replace the iBook. I sent in the iBook for the third time: Apple kept it 10 days, did no repairs, and returned the computer.
Talking to the same 2nd tier representative discussing what Apple was going to do this fourth time, after I reminded him of his statement about the last repair, he told me that Apple didn't do a repair on the third attempt, so his statement didn't apply. I objected trying to keep my cool, explained he was crawfishing using semantics. So then he offered me more RAM, software, or something else for pacification. At this point there was not much to do but to accept his offer at the fourth repair attempt.
He sent an email thanking me for accepting his offer and that he hoped the gift would change my opinion of Apple Products. I wrote him back and explained that my opinion of Apple Products hasn't changed. I love Macs. I understand that this problem is an exception. I also told him that my opinion of Apple Service was somewhat lower than a low water bridge and nothing he had done made it better.
As explained to Apple, we'll try this last fourth repair attempt. If we continue to experience problems, and Apple doesn't replace the iBook, then we'll try small claims court. The fact is this iBook has not performed to the standards established by Apple. As a Mac Fanatic I don't not want to switch. I currently have 5 macs of various types and love each. Switching would hurt me much more than Apple. But if they can't get it right with Apple Service, what's a guy to do.
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| nhmacusr |
5/27/04, 11:00 AM EDT |
You've got more patience than me. If I sent in my iBook and got it back in worse shape than when I sent it, I would have been a pressure cooker.
Howard, I liked your responses. I would have done the same thing.
One thing that may or may not help is to find a good local certified technician. Sometimes talking to people in person helps. I have a pretty good relationship with my local guy.
I am not sure how much they are able to do at he Apple stores, but I thought that I read that they expanded the repair facilities at the stores recently. That might be a good place to start.
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| david |
5/27/04, 11:08 AM EDT |
Just got my iBook back from the first repair. A rubber foot is missing and the metal collar it mounts to is not flush but at an angle. Must call Apple...hope I get better help.
BTW, the first tech did indicate they might put Panther on my iBook, but no such luck...
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| adam jackson |
5/27/04, 2:13 PM EDT |
havent you talked about this before jonathan?
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| Jonahan |
5/27/04, 2:38 PM EDT |
Adam, yes I have, but not about getting it back in worse shape and the whole wrap up and whatnot.
nhmacuser: I left out the part where I let loose on a 2nd level Customer Relations guy. I wasn't getting anywhere and he actually said the Apple was "going above and beyond" by fixing the damage they had done. To which I responded with "if I wanted this sort of treatment I'd have bought a Gateway or a Dell".
Then I cried myself to sleep with the newfound realization that Apple was imperfect.
;-)
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| sweetjimmyhugs |
5/27/04, 4:11 PM EDT |
I don't want to sound like... oh I don't know... Matt, but to me it is sounding like Apple doesn't really care about its customers. If I had to deal with this problem I would have been an agitated mofo, and if I was reading this I would assume that Apple does not care about us at all. This is not helping Apple get more customers.
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| woe and intrigue |
5/27/04, 6:29 PM EDT |
I sent the newly purchased refurb'd 1GHz 15in Powerbook packing back to Apple for a refund. It started freezing up and then on power off then power on, it would lock up and/or kernal panic....Usually worse after it was asleep.... About one in ten power cycles would get a clean boot up. I messed with it for a couple of days... Even swapped out the RAM.... No fixes... the hardware test said everything was fine... yeah sure.... It was clear to me that this powerbook was returned to Apple from its
original owner because it was broken... Apple ran the hardware test that showed no problem so they called it a refurb and sold it to me.... Just like the defective refurb monitor they sold me back in 1998.
So I called the local Apple Store and they said I should be able to get a full refund from the main apple store... So I called them... Went down several false voice mail paths that went to dead ends before I could get to a person.... The first tech person said that it sounded like a logic board problem.... So then the customer service person was happily signing me up for an exchange... I told her I wanted my money back.... Suddenly I was back with a new belligerent tech support guy who said I hadn't done enough to say that the powerbook was defective... He couldn't tell me what else I needed to do, but I hadn't done enough... so this bozo sends me to a powerbook specialist, who tells me that I need to wipe the HD and reinstall panther.... This really pissed me off... (1) I had already done it and (2) I paid a total of $1750 to be Apple's tech?
I started with the "I've been buying macs since 1984 and your database should show me as the owner of 4-5 current macs... Am I really the type of customer that you want to piss off?" Nothing... So I moved to "I charged this on my Visa... As soon as I get off this call, I'll call visa and tell them not to pay you." Suddenly/immediately everything changed.... The powerbook specialist now said that its likely the logic board and that she will approve a full refund.... The call took almost 1 hour!! I wish I had pulled that Visa bit when I had the problem with the refurb monitor... I'll never forget having $2k worth of computer sitting useless for 8 weeks while the monitor was being repaired by an authorized apple dealer....
I'll never buy online again from apple.... Right after I dropped the POS powerbook off at FedEx for shipment back to Apple, I went by compusa.... Bought the 1GHz G4 12in ibook, airport card, and 512Mb of additional RAM for $400 less than the "great" deal on the refurb powerbook... And it all works.... And if it didn't, I could just walk into CompUSA and exchange it until I get one that works... no fedex, no jumping through flaming hoops, no bull[doodoo]....
Its no wonder Apple doesn't grow their market share.... Customer service borders on nonexistent. They only admit to big mistakes very late in the game... See the ibook logic board repair program or the MDD wind tunnelrepair program as examples... Or they don't admit to them at all... See the tray loading imac analog board/flyback transformer problem.... Or the powerbook white spot problem. Lucky thing I really love osX.... If they were still hanging on to os9, I'd probably be buying a Dell.... dude...
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| Jonahan |
5/27/04, 7:01 PM EDT |
Well, I'm not sure that Apple is actually worse than any other computer maker - they're probably still a lot better. I think they're just not head and shoulders above anymore.
Something else I left out of the story was that Apple offered to add a faster Combo drive to the iBook (sorry, I was trying to get all the details into the story and still have it finished before I succumbed to some much needed sleep). They did upgrade it, but the exterior of the CD/DVD-ROM tray was white, like the new iBooks and didn't match the metallic grey I have. I mentioned it to Tech Support at some point and they managed to switch it to a color that matches my iBook.
So ... maybe Apple did go above and beyond? ;-)
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| chilove |
5/27/04, 9:52 PM EDT |
My iBook G3 (November 2002 model) was churning along real nice when the video issue appeared. No problem, call Apple, get a box, send it in. No Airport whatsoever upon return. Nada, Zip. Did not recognize the Airport card at all. OK, no prob, just send it back again. Get it back and we're good to go. A few months later the backlight stops working. This time I try the Apple Store to send it in. Genius is cool, takes care of business and I get it back a few days later. Now things are bad. Many tool marks from opening the case, a new keyboard is now in my iBook ( upon close inspection, it would seem that the tech did not realize the keyboard was 'locked'. He obviously tried to pry it up and broke it.) But the tool marks were unacceptable. In addition, my Airport was 'weak'. I think when the tech replaced a cable through the hinge to fix the inverter, he botched up the antenna cable. OK, take it back the genius bar and point out all the issues. He says he will authorize all the parts to replaced that I complained about. Get it back and the paint under the lid is scratched in several places. The bottom is new and a foot is missing. so much for fixing it all. also a little tail of a flat orange ribbon cable is sticking out the case near the hard drive vent. BUT, it is all working perfectly. I cannot bear to part with it again for fear of what might happen if I ask them to continue to get my iBook back into the condition I originally gave it to them in. Is it rookie repair guys? are the window guys taking a stab at it for fun? or is someone at Apple just not paying close enough attention to the repair centers that they contract to do the work? I cannot be sure. I will however continue to put my trust in Applecare. They acknowledge an issue and they do something about it. Their something and my something and your something may not be a single unified vision, but I do have to admit that a company that sends you a box, picks it up and gets it back within a week is more than OK. I just wish they would love my iBook as much as I do and take care of it the way I would.
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| ClimbingTheLog |
5/27/04, 10:32 PM EDT |
Don't feel so bad - at least yours is getting repaired. I have an iBook 500 that had its Firewire and Ethernet ports fail due to electrostatic discharge. It's a design problem as all the new Apple notebooks have ESD-protection on the circuits, but Apple ain't doin' nuthin' about the old ones because they don't "recognize it as a problem."
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| rlhamon |
5/27/04, 10:36 PM EDT |
It's actually not Apple Corp. who is fixing the laptops it's outsourced to a different company that Apple has hired. I think if you would make a complaint to Apple Corp. about the service that you've received with the repair of your iBook. I think that Apple needs to be informed about this issue and that they should investigate it.
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| pat |
6/1/04, 6:18 AM EDT |
And I thought I was only unlucky because I needed to get my iBook fixed on a trip to Thailand! I love Apple (used to work for an authorized reseller), and it saddens me to see all those stories.
Anyways - my story: logic board failed while in Bangkok. Talked to the local repair center, they said they'd receive the spare part within one week. (I could not understand they didn't have them in stock since it was a known problem!) A week later, it still wasn't there. I was not too happy, left a message on the voice mail of the guy in charge at Apple Thailand, asking to contact me. Even after contacting him twice, I did not hear from them. Since Singapore is above Thailand in the Asian hierarchy (and responsible for them) I got in touch with a very, very, very helpful guy there. He helped to sort the situation out quickly. Unfortunately, however, my 512 MB RAM module no longer worked when I picked my dear iBook up. Countless phonecalls and complaining did help - Singapore managed to have Thailand sort the RAM problem out with the local repair center. And now everything seems to work fine again - I just hope it will remain this way, after reading all the stories above...
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| David Duncan |
6/7/04, 11:26 AM EDT |
I've never had to send in my G3 iBook for repairs thank god. I hate dealing with customer relations people for ANY company. I am trying to scrounge up as much money as any 17 year old can for a new iBook G4. I got gipped when I bought my G3 I think cause at the time I didn't know how important memory or a good hd was.
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| Howard Chaney |
6/14/04, 6:39 PM EDT |
Follow-up, see previous post: Received the iBook back from Apple for the 4th time. It took Apple approximately 10 days to replace the hard drive. Now they have replaced every part on the iBook except for the non-electronic stuff. We've not had any problems since...we'll see how it goes. I'll be happy if there are no additional problems.
It seems to me that if Apple had replace the iBook on the first repair, they would have saved a considerable amount of money and time. They have installed 2 new logic boards, 2 displays, battery, hard drive, etc. Additionally they have paid Airbourne 8 express deliveries and the special shipping boxes they use.
Interestingly the new hard drive came with Jaguar. Since Apple had upgraded the iBook to Panther on the third repair, you would think that installing new hardware containing the system, it would actually be the latest available. But they had previously provided the upgrade CDs so it's not a big deal since I had to reload all the software anyway. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Finally, I'm still a Mac fan. Since the company I work for switched about 7 years ago to windoze NT/2000 stuff, I've had to deal with a lot worse than Apple. At least they have stuck with it and replaced all offending parts, even after the warranty ran out. I'm very unhappy about being lied to by the 2nd tier rep. I'm not exactly happy about the repair events, but I'm also not overly concerned. After all, most companies these days would not have done any repairs after the warranty expired.
nhmacusr: Thanks for the comments, it always helps to try and be reasonable. We actually have a very good local Apple repair center left over from a closed retailer. I've not used him since they closed the retail store, but will take your advice and make contact for future repairs if needed.
David...good luck on the new iBook G4. Maybe by the time you get the money, the iBook G5s will be out. I'm holding out to see if the Powerbook G5s are coming out this year before deciding what to buy next. My wife has the G3 600 iBook, and I have a G3 500 iBook. It's time to upgrade.
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| Me |
6/28/04, 8:40 PM EDT |
Thank you Apple for extending the logic board program to cover all dual USB iBooks. I am sure there are many users out there who appreciate that this was done. It's rare to see anyone giving praise because that's not as much fun to write about.
I understand very well the frustration and the 'net is an incredible resource for letting others know in a public venue what has happened - more power to 2 Guys and other Mac sites out there... cool deal.
I know this sounds dumb and i'll get flamed, but when and if Apple does you right on something, how about posting a comment on Apple's discussion boards? I've noticed people starting to do that lately and it's a stark contrast to the negativity and bit of fresh air too.
No, i'm not ripping on complaining because these are legitimate and very annoying and upsetting problems (I replaced my inverter/backlight cable for a recently purchased iBook late 2001 in fabulous condition minus the "angle of death" syndrome and got it for a deal 'cuz I knew how to fix it. Still a pain in the butt to do (7 hours to fix) but the part was $20 and Apple wanted $300+ to do the job!!
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| Rachel Klein |
7/15/04, 10:49 AM EDT |
Attn: Howard Chaney, what happened to your hard drive?
We've had our display replaced once and the logic board twice (just got it back today from the second repair). Our first hard drive failure came right after the first dispaly & board replacement, and Apple wouldn't cover it concomitant to the repair. Now the drive we replaced the original one with eight months ago has failed at the same time the display did. I can't help thinking there's a connection here.
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| RWhitesell |
7/28/04, 12:02 PM EDT |
iBook sent out for logic board repair. Went to Mac store and talked to a genius, they sent it out delivered back to house - turned on and all was well. Second time I turned it on froze... Took it back to Mac store - genius said they should be able to fix it in store. They did not think it was logic board. It has been 5 days they still have it and when i check online repair status it says "Awaiting triage". what the hell?
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| ed |
8/5/04, 4:54 PM EDT |
http://www.geocities.com/edriangs/ibook1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/edriangs/ibook2.jpg
Is there anyone having the same screen as I did? If coincidently yes, please reply my topic, would like to discuss with you guys...
I'm so sick and tired with my iBook + an External Monitor...
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| Shane |
8/8/04, 10:15 AM EDT |
I had the iBook g3 logicboard replacement, and they put in a board incompatible with the OS on my computer (OS could not have been reloaded from the disks I have). I'm not sure what this means; it seems to be running the same OS now that it's back, but I read something about this on the Web, called Apple, and was told that I would indeed need new disks if I ever had to reload the OS. I said, "I think you'd better send me some then, don't you?" They agreed, but it's kind of odd that they didn't think of it for me.
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| Jonahan |
8/11/04, 4:21 PM EDT |
Me: Good points... we're probly some of the biggest Apple cheerleaders around, but yeah we have to let 'em have it when they screw up ;)
Posting about good stuff they've done in Apple's forums is a great idea.
I always let Apple employees know they're doing a great job, whether it's on the phone or at the Apple Store. Well, except for the 2nd logic board replacement of course.
Because without Apple where would we be? Using floppies while chained to our desks with network cables probably. :-D
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8/11/04, 4:38 PM EDT |
Ed,
Does that happen all the time? I mean, if you can set it where there's no pressure on the bottom, can you get it where it works for a while?
What I saw wasn't that solid, all the way across the screen like that, but it did look similar. Maybe yours is just worse off and the logic board is totally hosed.
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8/23/04, 10:21 PM EDT |
In February I had my first logic board problem. I called, they sent a box, and a few days later I got my ibook back as good as new. I was impressed with the speed and quality service (my experience with Gateway has been repulsive.) So it's August and I start having display issues again. Sometimes I have no display at all, other times it works for a little while then locks up and kind of "clouds up", which is different than my first logic board problem. I called three days in a row, and each person told me that it's really rare for the logic board to fail twice. The last day the tech finally agreed to send me a box (I said I'd pay for the repair if it wasn't the logic board). My ibook was picked up by DHL on Thursday and I just got an email (Monday) that it's been repaired and is on it's way. Pretty good turn around. Must have been the logic board, because no one called me to say otherwise.
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8/24/04, 7:20 PM EDT |
Jonathan,
More description of my display symptoms:
The screen appeared to have (1st) Running Horizontal Lines, tiny lines all over my display, but still have OS visual, 8 months ago.
Few weeks later, the running horizontal lines disappeared, but the (2nd) color visual shown in wrong tone, example like: Black shown in Pink, Grey shown in Dark Yellow and White shown in Yellow, still have OS visual.
Few months later, (3rd) massive thick running horizontal lines with Green Hue covered my whole display, canŐt see a single thing of my OS (just like the present display).
http://www.geocities.com/edriangs/ibook1.jpg
Meanwhile, my iBook works fine with an external monitor.
*whenever I closed my lid for a few minutes, reopen it I can see my OS visual back again! But with distorted/running horizontal lines and also covered with BLUE HUE whole screen. Unfortunately everything disappeared in 5-10seconds and back to the display with the linked photo I posted.
It shows like the linked photo display whenever I start up my com, and stay quite the same with no preview at all, only Thick Green running lines all along. I used an external monitor to operate.
Many from Apple discussion board told me mine is LVDS cable, they fixed it themselves. And some replies from online Us based repair shops told me it's Invertor failure. But my local Apple inspection told me it's LCDs faulty, need RM1,600 to replace a new one. Double the money I can buy a new iBook, but I am not affordable to do so. I am so confused, since LVDS=RM 300+, Invertor=RM500, LCD=RM1,600, quite a big difference among them.
Eventhough my iBook is covered with the Apple Extended Logic Board Repair Programme, but since mine works fine with external monitor, Apple will never define my problem as a Logic Board failure...
Any comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated, thanks for the reply! : )
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